Building the Future: Navigating the Evolution and Collaboration in Smart Cities

00:05 - Steve Kenny (Host)

So hi, and welcome to today's episode around security tech talks. I'm delighted to be joined by my friend and colleague, Andrea, sorry and we're going to be talking about a hugely important topic around smart cities, and this is something that, personally, I've had the pleasure of speaking about for a number of years, and it's something that I think has probably gone from a design right the way through to the implementation phase, and I'm delighted that Andrea has been kind enough to share his experiences and times with us today. So, Andrea, thank you and welcome.

00:38 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

Thank you very much.

00:40 - Steve Kenny (Host)

So I guess, from my side, Andrea, we're looking at a lot of different concepts around smart cities, and one of the things that I often get asked, and I'm keen to understand better myself, is where are we in the evolution of smart cities? It's something that we've seen publicized. It's something we've seen spoken about for a number of years now. From your experience, where do you see us in the evolution of the concept?

01:00 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

Yeah, I think it's a great question to start. Actually, for me, smart city it's first of all a framework. It's definitely a framework that is based on a roadmap of implementation. Technically, the industry has enabled different solutions, from POC to concrete projects in place in different cities in different countries. The level of maturity of different cities actually changes quite much. If we look at city by city, country by country and also within the cities, we have seen that the evolution, the adoption, the implementation of technology toward improved services for the citizens varies quite much based on the specific area of focus. So I think the question is definitely how broad the evolution has been and where. Maybe we can discuss a little bit later with some concrete examples.

02:04 - Steve Kenny (Host)

I think from my side, it is something that's quite exciting to discuss, essentially when we're looking at the deployment of different technologies and where they sit within this, and I know that we get asked a lot of questions around sort of data-driven decision-making. We get a lot of connectivity, infrastructure type questions and then, obviously, sort of looking at digital transformation. So it's where we're looking at using different technologies in different ways. And how do you see that now? Is technology from an innovative point of view? Is that at a stage where people can genuinely get a lot more value out of the technology, or are we still in a phase where we're learning to adopt technologies in new ways?

02:40 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

No, definitely. I like to say that it's probably a time to do more with what we have. Definitely, cities who have invested in a proper infrastructure, paving the way for the adoption of new technology, are ahead, but definitely it's also a matter of leveraging the existing technology. Of course, new technologies are coming and are prospecting, opening up ideas for even more innovative solutions.

03:10 - Steve Kenny (Host)

So one thing that you did mention there is where cities have made a sort of a good investment in infrastructure. What sort of challenges do we see? Because obviously, depending on where we are in the world depends on the maturity and the age of cities. If we look at London, it is a very well-established city and I can imagine a lot of the infrastructure and connectivity in there is set in stone and very difficult to change, whereas if we look in, say, regions around the Middle East where they are building brand new cities out of the ground, the opportunity is far greater and, dare I say, a lot easier for us to actually achieve the ambitions of a smart city.

03:44 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

Yeah, you know I'm coming from the old Europe where cooling a fiber it's definitely a challenge and it's a costly exercise. That impacts a lot about the adoption of new sensors and very much the ground level, the street level, presents several challenges. While in other realities where you can set up the infrastructure basically from the starting point, I must say life is much easier.

04:12 - Steve Kenny (Host)

When we strip it back and we look at why smart cities are on the government's agenda. Obviously we're mindful. It's around improving the habitants of urban cities and we're looking at urban mobility. We're looking at improved safety, those type of applications. What is the actual true value in terms of, ultimately, the residents of these cities? What should governments and different organizations look to push for the citizens of these cities?

04:40 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

There are, of course, different ways to answer this question. I like to think about, first of all, the leaders of today should think about the leaders of tomorrow and design a roadmap of implementation that is medium term, because this is all about smart cities having a long term agenda implemented step by step, with short term implementation and adoption of new technology and new processes. The priorities, also for the cities, are similar but different at the same time. So it's very much important to have the citizen engagement, listen to the citizen needs and try to answer those needs with data-proven analysis and assessment of the implemented changes. These are, I think, what I recognize the most by talking with city authorities.

05:32 - Steve Kenny (Host)

Probably not a contentious question, but when we look at the long-term vision of smart cities, how is it impacted by political change? Because obviously one organization or one government's agenda might be three to five years based on the cycle of governments, whereas in the Middle East, you know, you've got a, you know 20 to 30 year plan occasionally. What are the challenges around that in terms of the vision of a smart city?

05:57 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

The challenge is you look only your city. So that's basically what make everything short term. So fortunately, we have communities, we have initiatives, a cluster of cities that think long-term as a community. To make an example, the SDGs. These are goals that are for community. These really are goals that are like a reference for all the cities that aim to improve the quality of life, the sustainability, in a bigger scale. That could be one reference that basically go across the different governments and it's a pretty long-term and recurrent ambition for, I would say, different governments and stakeholders.

06:44 - Steve Kenny (Host)

It's definitely an area that I think, when we look from a technology point of view and, I guess, smart applications, whether they be smart buildings, smart cities, smart environments they are heavily influenced by the capabilities of technology. And when we look at some of the key big technology trends that people seem to be talking around obviously big data being a huge one, obviously with reference connectivity and infrastructure. One that we can't hide from is going to be artificial intelligence and what can be achieved with using artificial intelligence in, I guess, an ethical or in the correct manner. How are you starting to see these discussions taking shape?

07:29 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

More and more, with AI, we can collect more data from different sensors and gather and plaster them. Where AI plays a key role is also in understanding the data. We know that in cities, data analysts might be a scarce resource, precious resource that we need to take care of and maximize their capabilities, providing tools to leverage on the collected data. So I think AI can be definitely an enabler for collecting data, but also for analyzing data with an ethical approach, as you said, and then simplifying the interaction with the data will simplify the life for decision-making in taking the right interventions and the right actions. I think this is where I pragmatically see the most impacting value of AI for city planners.

08:24 - Steve Kenny (Host)

How do you think citizens see the, dare I say, ethical implications of utilizing AI-based technologies? I know when I've been to different conferences and obviously we have the European Artificial AI Act that we need to consider. How are you finding how people are receptive to new technologies when people probably don't necessarily understand how the technology works, what the technology is there to do and actually how it's going to help, because obviously there's a stigma attached to the likes of certain technologies, facial recognition, things like that where people are quite hesitant or even resistant to utilizing these technologies when in reality it has a huge part to play and has got great potential? What are the conversations and the discussion points that you hear when you're out talking about these points?

09:13 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

I think that basically the concept of trust will rise a lot. We won't be able really to document and frame everything. The trust and the transpiration in bi-directional communication will increase the value. AI is just at the beginning and also the ethical approach to it, so it's just the start of the journey. I think trust and transparent dialogue will be instrumental to pave the way for a proper adoption of this incredible technology and its potential.

09:52 - Steve Kenny (Host)

It'll be interesting to see what the terms of the AI Act will look like and how that's going to impact the deployments of these types of technologies, and I guess that some are worried about their own sort of personal privacy, things like that. So, yeah, I guess as a concept, it'll be quite interesting to see. And you've spoken around the likes of trust and transparency. One of the big challenges at the moment is a lack of trust in government. So when we are looking at design and implementing smart cities, citizens have an uncomfortable level of trust in the government, what they're doing and why they're doing it. Do you think that will hold back the deployment of technology or the vision that these cities are trying to push forward?

10:37 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

Yeah, I'm not sure it will hold back. What I see is that some cities are taking the initiatives, taking a leading position when it comes to learning more about the AI and the implications, and also elaborate a vision, a strategy and also a plan to improve the culture of ethical adoption of AI within the city and share among other cities also clustering cities who have the same level of willingness in don't be passive, but rather being active toward the adoption, a proper adoption, an ethical adoption of something that is new. So this is the side that I like to notice and to share with you, I really see cities grouping together, very excited by the technology but also driven by the sense of responsibility, sharing practices, challenges and elaborating strategies to be better. So I think this is more exciting to see.

11:38 - Steve Kenny (Host)

So I guess, where we're starting to see cities work together, they look at collaborating. They can, I assume, share best practice. These are the lessons learned. This is what we tried to deploy. That didn't work. These are things that did work. What type of forums do you find that play quite a big part in that space?

11:58 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

First of all, sharing is definitely a challenge for cities, even within the cities. Many cities and organizations still have the working silo as a main challenge. So definitely the forums, everything that are initiatives with the ambition of gathering and sharing, are all opportune and useful. When it comes to EMEA specific, I think the Smart City Expo World Congress in Barcelona is still one of the reference events which is close to city authorities and really enabling opportunities for sharing and grouping.

12:41 - Steve Kenny (Host)

Who are the decision makers in this? Are they people that sort of design planners? Are they people that are design planners? Are they people that are finance procurements? Are they IT? How do we get all of these people together in the one room to have conversations that ultimately have a meaningful outcome?

12:56 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

Yeah, I think first of all it's stakeholders with the same vision, the vision of using technology to improve services first, and then, when you have the ability to connect with those profiles of city authorities, then it's just about gathering them and we have from really mayors we have an umbrella overview that wants to learn, wants to share at high level what are the latest evolution. But also we have specific city managers with silo and vertical responsibilities, from planning to maintenance, designing to keep things up and running in the daily life.

13:41 - Steve Kenny (Host)

So, when we look at these stakeholder discussions that they're having, what are the challenges that they face? Is it anything around budget constraints or, if I look at it from a smart building type of environment, people can be quite protective of their own domain. Like, this is the area that I work in, this is my budget and this is the goals and ambitions for my department. How do we break down those silos or are there any sort of challenges that we think? Actually, we address this and it'll help motivate and speed up the process of achieving those goals.

14:17 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

It's a simple answer. I mean my city. It's an ecosystem. If you want to improve the things in your city and across cities and neighbor cities, you have to work in an open-minded way. Ecosystem means working with others, sharing with others, hopefully not reinventing the wheel every time. So it's a little bit of a condition and a context that conveys all the open-minded people going beyond the single kingdom. But, as you say, definitely, budget is always a challenge, so it's also important to try to share about things that can work and can be replicable, adoptable by different cities who might not have the same budget as the big ones or the more healthy ones.

15:06 - Steve Kenny (Host)

There's always going to be challenges financially. We are always going to see budget constraints. How do we bring it back into our world where we start to see a video surveillance camera that is traditionally used for the likes of safety and security? Where do we see the deliverables or the potential of a video surveillance camera now being seen as a sensor and the data collection point? How do you see that rolling out, moving forward?

15:32 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

Yeah, as you said, traditional cameras are used for public safety and for traffic management. I think those two historically are also silos in cities. Between these two organizations we see much more convergence than in the past. So here we see how the cameras can be maybe deployed for public safety mission first and, over the time, provide data and insights to traffic planners as well. Definitely the most natural extension of use of existing infrastructure and sensor and systems applications is toward environmental monitoring. So the possibility to use cameras deployed for public safety and or for traffic also to monitor the environment condition, the weather conditions, the atmospheric conditions and all the challenges that the climate change is bringing to our cities. So I think this is a simple but very pragmatic and effective way to leverage the existing technology at best.

16:30 - Steve Kenny (Host)

Yeah, and I guess, in order for that to be achievable, there is no sort of single source manufacturer that can say okay, we're going to deliver technology and this is how we're going to achieve that. I assume it needs an extensive ecosystem of lots of different hardware, technology, software, lots of different companies all working in collaboration to reach a common goal.

16:52 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

Yes, like the city, our ecosystem, the same goes for technology. So integration plays a key role. Enabling full freedom to cities will be instrumental from the technology providers. Vice versa, the city authorities should look into full freedom of choosing the technology, the components, the suppliers in the most flexible way. This is very much the key, being open for real and let all the components play their role in the most effective and easier way.

17:31 - Steve Kenny (Host)

If we were to look back at the last five years and where the discussion points around smart cities were, we sort of reflect on where we are today. Where do you think the smart cities discussion will be five years in the future?

17:48 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

Well, every two years there is a new trend, definitely, but the past one we knew, we talked about collecting data. Now we're talking about big data, digital twin. The discussion should not be about the technology. My discussion is about how far we can go with something that is applicable for real and not in POC or not in small district, because this is a little bit what we see, is that the adoption of technology goes for zones, for areas. The challenge for me in perspective is really to scale what has proven to be effective.

18:33 - Steve Kenny (Host)

It's interesting because when we look at some of the large conceptual designs that we see out in the market at the moment and we look at some of the less mature markets and the markets that have got the greatest level of growth potential, those in the Middle East, where essentially they get the opportunity to design a city from the ground up. They can look at the infrastructure, they can look at how they're going to communicate that out and actually it feels to me that the experience of what their residents will sit front and center of how the city will operate. And I guess, if we look in the Middle East at the moment, so Saudi Arabia there's no hiding from the fact that there is not only local investment being made, but it's going to be huge sums of investment that we're seeing from third parties and even other countries and governments. I think when we have these discussions and we look at what they're trying to deliver and the experience, it is just incredible and I think, even looking at it today, the technology that will be deployed in five years probably doesn't even exist. It's probably not even a dream for some organizations that will be delivering these type of technologies. So, yeah, I think there's huge opportunity, great potential in those type of areas.

19:53

I want to touch on something that I thoroughly enjoy talking around, and that's around the cybersecurity concept within smart cities, and it is something that, having spoken to various different stakeholders at cities, they sometimes feel that that is the one area that will hold back the adoption of certain types of technologies. We look at the proliferation of lots of different sensors out in the field and how they're going to be connected back, and they see them as potential vulnerabilities. I see that as an opportunity if we get it and we do it correctly. Others that are probably not as understanding may see that as a huge risk. From a client-facing point of view, how do you think that the concept of cybersecurity and what that can do to a city, how do you think that's influencing what that might look like moving forward?

20:40 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

My view is, cities are critical infrastructures and they are prone to attacks from different angles, so I don't think limiting the number of sensors or limiting the infrastructure closing system will be the solution, and this is also what I see. I see cities that are improving their IT departments, capabilities, processes in order to face the actual challenges they already face today in a better way and be ready for future possible challenges as well.

21:24 - Steve Kenny (Host)

I’ve seen many a Hollywood film, I know how that ends. Die Hard being a classic example where they take over the city and it crumbles to its knees and nothing can be delivered. But it's interesting because we've seen Hollywood glamorize these type of incidents but unfortunately we've seen cities, especially transport, public authority or public transport type systems, being attacked. So I think it is something that people need to be mindful of. I'm just looking at a couple of other things that I think will be important to sort of acknowledge and move forward. From your experience, what are the enablers? What do people need to consider as a technology enabler moving forward to actually, I guess, help organizations achieve a smart city?

22:02 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

The latest technology enables more and more brains to bring ideas, so definitely for a city, look at your own assets, look at your own resources in your territory and maximize on the resources you have locally. At the end of the day, a smart city is a framework that really starts from the local land and the local resources, also, to be close to the local challenges and the local capabilities, there will be more technology available, even for startups, new companies and new brains to either replicate what has been worked out elsewhere, but also to invent something innovative. So I think there are plenty of opportunities in front of us.

22:52 - Steve Kenny (Host)

Are there any sort of government funding initiatives or any sort of European type labs, things that will enable startups or even funding options available that people, organizations should explore to help with that?

23:07 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

Yes, at different levels, at different layers. Locally, some cities are dedicating funding in this direction, but also at the country level and more recently in Europe, from a European standpoint.

23:21 - Steve Kenny (Host)

And then, what about technology initiatives or technology labs heading sort of a European level? Are there any of those that people could potentially get involved in? Or you would think, right, okay, from our experience, this helps with in terms of proof of concept. We're looking at the interoperability of different systems, because I guess, if we're looking at environmental and sustainability, what we're actually doing is consolidating four different business areas. You might have a camera as a sensor, you're going to have environmental monitoring, you're going to have people that are going to be actually doing some form of traffic monitoring, and then we take that back into some big database that we can publish that out and enable people to make smart and intelligent decisions based on all of these different feeds coming in. Are there any things that you think actually these are good areas that we should focus on?

24:09 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

Generally in favor of local city labs, we try initiatives that are popping up and basically nothing new, something already in place in several cities. My advice would be to look at your cities, see if there is an initiative. If you are passionate about smart city, try to connect to these initiatives locally and see whether there is a contribution opportunity or some inspiration for other similar initiatives in other cities.

24:42 - Steve Kenny (Host)

To validate why cities are important, what is the shining light of a smart city? Is there a smart city out there in the world that everyone goes to visit because actually it's delivering on all of its goals? People go there to learn about what is best practice. Let's look at how technology is being deployed. Let's look to see how people are interacting with the technology. What would you say is either the one or the top two or three cities around the world that are sort of put on a pedestal that people should aspire to, to sort of at least deliver against or even optimistically better?

25:17 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

This is a recurrent question that I will not answer just because I think it's very difficult to answer and would be a bit unfair, in my view. There are some indicators about smart city progress, city by city, taking into account several aspects, about the ranking of evolution in terms of services. But to partially answer your question, I would say definitely experience transportation in the Netherlands, experience tourism in some countries in Spain and experience safety, if you wish, in some countries in the Nordic.

25:57 - Steve Kenny (Host)

Excellent. I'm going to ask one more question. So obviously people have been speaking around the concept of smart cities for 10 plus years. I think we should feel comfortable that things have gone from being designed, they've gone from being theoretical to something that has been implemented. What do you think the top one or two challenges that you see today actually preventing cities from achieving this moving forward? What would your recommendations be? And I encourage you not to dodge that question.

26:31 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

No, I think one challenge is translating the adoption of technology toward the citizen perception. We have seen the proliferation of apps. So apps for any kind of digital service, from parking to payments and so on and so forth, from the school, the libraries. That is maybe not really scalable anymore. So elaborate ways to communicate with citizens and why not, with tourists, which at the end are big stakeholders in cities that are simpler, that are more intuitive, that might not require to install an app. And back to basics use visual signage, use sound, audio, anything that is much simpler and much intuitive, interactive with any kind of people profile, whether they're residents or they're tourists visiting the city only for a few hours.

27:30 - Steve Kenny (Host)

Excellent, and then any other comments before we wrap up.

27:34 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

I think again, the word smart city is a word that is blurred, defined by a definition that aims to improve and think big. In reality, for me, it's just the adoption of technology, innovative technology that does not wait too much to become mature. But let's be also critical when it comes to smart cities and let's look into something that is pragmatic, adoptable and replicable with what we have.

28:08 - Steve Kenny (Host)

Right, excellent. Well, Andrea, thank you so much for taking the time to share your views and thoughts and your experiences on smart cities and where they're going moving forward. I think this is a great opportunity for everyone that's working within this space, whether they be technology companies, companies that will work directly for the governments and the cities, and I've certainly learned a lot today. So thank you very much and I look forward to future discussions with you, thank you.

28:35 - Andrea Sorri (Guest)

Thank you, Steve. Thank you.

28:42 - Steve Kenny (Host)

Thanks for tuning in to Security Tech Talk. If you've enjoyed today's episode, be sure to check out the other episodes for more insightful discussion and expert perspectives. Don't forget to subscribe, so you never miss an episode.

This podcast is brought to you by Axis Communications. Axis enables a smarter and safer world by creating solutions for improving security and business performance.